Could an Adult SS3 Goku beat Baby Vegeta in DBGT? (2024)

I am referring to the adult version of Goku in DBGT. When he was in his child form it is obvious that Goku in any SS form could not beat Baby Vegeta (not counting SS4 because he is temporarily in his adult body). The fact that SS3 could not hold for long in their first battle indicates that Baby Vegeta was stronger than a SS3. He took a punch right in the face and it didn’t seem to faze him at all. Then after a few more collisions that could not be seen but was evidence since they tore up some of the landscape, Goku was forced to revert back to his normal state. Then on Planet Tuffle, Goku had re-grown his tail due to a pair of pliers and Old Kai’s methods. It was implied that Goku could now hold the form in his child state as he could in his adult form. However, we can assume if not prove that he was nowhere near as strong as his adult SS3 form. He mentions it himself after the first fight with Baby; “My older body was more experienced an more resilient.” This is because he was able to make the SS3 transformation for over 20 years in my count. There is no date of when he achieved the form in Other World in-between the Cell Games and World Tournament Sagas. So it could be assumed that he was able to do it quite some time before he came back to Earth, even though me mentions that he hadn’t practiced it too much at the point where he fought Fat Buu. Then add in the 10 years after Kid Buu’s death to the end of DBZ. Also the 10 years after Goku’s departure to the beginning of GT. Even though some say that is only a 4 year gap in between the two series. I like the 10 year one better because it makes more sense to me. That’s 10+10+give or take a few months in the Other World=more than 20 years that adult Goku was able to make the SS3 transformation. Now time to estimate Baby Vegeta’s power. His 1st form was able to beat Kid Goku as a SS3 easily; his 2nd form wasn’t shown to fight at all except to punch Kid Goku in the gut. His final form was able to beat Uub, Majuub, Full Power SS3 Kid Goku, Pan (oh that’s surprising!), he almost killed Goten/Gohan/Trunks, and killed Mr. Buu with the Revenge Death Ball (even though I question if Buu was really dead since fragments of his body were present after the explosion). So to estimate his power we should also take a look at Vegeta’s strength. He could go up to a SS2, but it is questionable of how strong he really is. Uub was shown to be on par with Goku in his normal form. Vegeta in any SS form was stronger than Gohan/Goten/Trunks even in their transformed states. When he was up against Baby Gohan he had to transform to be a match for him. Then Goten normal form showed up, and he began to lose. It wasn’t until he went to his full power that he was able to beat them both. I am thinking that he went SS2 to create the explosion to end the fight. I am basing this on the fact that his hair was just as long as it was in Z. This could be an artist’s mistake but I think that he went SS2. I also think that Baby Gohan went SS2 as well in that fight. Then after returning to Earth, normal Kid Goku easily beat up SS2 Gohan and SS/SS2 Goten (I don’t know which form he was in or if he could even go to SS2 at all). So with that being said, I think that SS2 Vegeta was even weaker than a normal Kid Goku and Uub as well. This also places him below Uub on the power level table. So until Vegeta reaches SS4 he is the third strongest hero in DBGT. With SS4 Goku first, followed by Majuub, and Vegeta is next until the Shadow Dragons Saga. After being infected, there is no telling how much Vegeta’s strength went up. If a normal Kid Goku could beat a SS2 Vegeta, but a SS3 Kid Goku lost to Baby Vegeta’s 1st form it was on heck of an increase. I think that this is due to Baby’s increased knowledge of Saiyan power. Goku mentions this in the fight; “The last time we meet you couldn’t even stand to be in a SS body, looks like Baby is a quick learner!” Baby was able to tap into Vegeta’s full power as well as adding the strength he collected from the other Saiyans and his followers. After using the Revenge Death Ball for the first time, he could easily generate the attack at will. This means his body held all of the negative energy that his followers gave him. In a sense, he absorbed the power of the first bomb in his body and that increased his overall power level. This event is what fueled his body to go into its final form. It is similar to Goku absorbing the Spirit Bomb in Super Android 13! Baby Vegeta was able to beat Uub=Normal Adult Goku, meaning that he was stronger than Goku’s normal form. Then some sources say that Majuub was on par with a SS3’s power. He was overpowered, but he still managed to produce the best challenge to Baby’s power until SS4 showed up. I think that he was stronger than Full Power SS3 Kid Goku, this is evident by the fights that the two had against Baby Vegeta Final Form. Yet, I still do not believe Majuub to be stronger than an adult SS3 Goku. SS4 Goku was toying with Baby; his punches tickled like a tiny feather, his energy blasts are no better, and the Revenge Death Ball didn’t even leave a scratch on Goku. We know that SS4 Goku could take it head on with no damage, but I also think that his positive energy has something to do with it as well. Revenge Death Ball Final was absorbed into Goku’s body so that gives a bit of evidence to my theory. Since his SS4 powers were more than enough, I think that his SS3 were more than enough as well. He may have found a way to sustain the energy drain that he previously had to endure in the Buu Saga. This would have made him a challenge for Baby Vegeta.

Anyone have thoughts on this?Vegetaisthebest 20:54, December 10, 2009 (UTC)

Again, this is just speculations and some things you mentioned just make the infamous plot holes from Dragon Ball GT (the fight between Baby Gohan and Goten vs Vegeta was one of my favorites from GT). About the fight which involved Vegeta against Baby Gohan and Goten, I just want to clear some things up. Baby Gohan was indeed at Super Saiyan 2. Now, you have to take into account that Baby Gohan is almost a "fusion" of Gohan's power with Baby's. Vegeta could have won the battle against Baby Gohan and Goten without reaching Super Saiyan 2 (which, as his hair returns to how it was like in Z, I suppose this) but if you see the battle, Baby provoked Vegeta to the point of psichological breaking (which is one of Vegeta's failures, since he can be taunted easily), which it was when he used his Full Power. Then, with Baby inside Vegeta's body, it happened the same that had happened to Gohan: Baby's power was added to Vegeta's. About Goku's power, I put into account his battle with General Rildo. Goku stated that he had never thought he would find someone stronger than Majin Buu in the Universe (reffering to Rildo's power). Goku was able to match Rildo by just going Super Saiyan (althouhg he turned into Super Saiyan 2 for moments). Taken that into account, Super Saiyan 3 Goku would at least be able to dominate even Super Buu or Kid Buu without effort. I believe that the only difference between Goku's prime (or as you mentioned, Adult Goku from GT) and his kid body is that is kid body cannot sustain Super Saiyan 3 or even Super Saiyan 2 as his adult body would. However, this doesn't influeciate's Goku's power, but only the duration of his transformation. Now, even though that there's not much evidence, Vegeta's power didn't had that much discripancy as you mentioned. What you mentioned is relative. There's some moments in Dragon Ball Z that, for example, Vegeta, in his base form, lasted longer against Kid Buu (and was even able to destroy 50% of Buu's body more than one time) that when he went Super Saiyan 2. So, saying that normal Kid Goku was able to beat SSJ 2 Gohan and SJJ Goten is just as relative as the example I mentioned. So, in conclusion, I still think that Super Saiyan 3 Goku wouldn't be able to beat Baby Vegeta.Nice discussion, by the way. I saw some of your discussions with Prince Zarbon and I found them fascinating. Vegeta - San Talk Contrib 00:04, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah that was one of my favorite GT fights as well. It is one of the few times during the series that we actually get to see Vegeta (alone) get involved in some actual combat. Thanks for the kind words on my other comments with PrinceZarbon as well. As you mentioned, GT has some major plot holes that can create these kinds of debates that usually lead to dead ends. I was going to mention what Goku said about Rilldo. He did not mention what form of Buu that he was comparing Rilldo to. That is why I did not think it relevant to include it in my theory. I agree that the Baby Gohan was almost a fusion between Gohan and Baby, but their relationship was more developed than Baby Goten. When he infected Goten he was not in that body for too long before switching to Gohan’s. In his body he could speak with Baby’s voice and this shows me that Baby was becoming more attached to his host. Forget about when he controlled the doctor, the little boy, and the Earthlings. When he was giving Vegeta the speech about how the Saiyans destroyed that Tuffles and whatnot this was the first time that the host spoke exactly with Baby’s voice. Good job mentioning that Vegeta lost his cool in that fight I failed to mention that. “That’s it Vegeta get angry! Push all of that hatred you have to the surface and reveal my victory!”

I also don’t think that SS3 Goku could beat Super Buu in any form. Read my other post: Who is the strongest non-fused character in the Buu Saga/What form of Buu is the strongest?” We can have that discussion later.

On the subject of Kid SS3 and adult SS3 Goku, I really do believe that his power was severely cut down. Based on the experience of the two different bodies, and the fact that the time and energy discrepancies would present for either form, adult SS3 Goku is stronger hands down.

Right now (no joke as I’m typing this response I am watching normal Vegeta and SS2 Vegeta vs. Kid Buu), I think that Buu was toying around. Remember that Vegeta easily destroyed the multiple Kid Buu’s that SS3 Goku fell to before Vegeta stepped in. This was mostly because he was too exhausted to defend himself. When you mentioned that Vegeta was able to destroy half of his body multiple times, Buu just floated there and took it. Vegeta was testing the limits of the regenerative ability; “Great, no effect at all!” Then Buu easily overpowered him. As a SS2, Buu underestimated him at first. This is evident when he came in and blasted him followed by a barrage of energy blasts. Then Buu regenerated behind him and easily beat Vegeta to a pulp. If you notice, SS2 Vegeta put up a better fight than his normal form. Don’t count when he was wished back because like Goku mentioned his body was just wished back so it could not generate its full power. That is why he did not even go SS.

Finally, the SS2 Baby Gohan and SS Goten issue can be resolved. I think in adult or child form, Goku could easily topple his two sons even in normal form. Think about it all of those years that the two did not train as much as they should have. The only time Goten was really training was during the 10 years before the end of Z with Goku. Look at the fight, Goku was able to easily defeat the two without much effort. Now that Baby was no longer in their bodies, they were just slaves by the egg and not by Baby himself. This means that their power levels would be as they normally were. Even though I think normal Goku could win if he were placed in the same situation as Vegeta in the episode The Attack on Vegeta.Vegetaisthebest 03:39, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

solid points[]

theres not much i can add to this discussion execpt.....GT screwed everyone

I agree the numerous plot holes make it hard to make heads or tails of things. The only way to make some sort of decision is combing Z and GT facts and battles. Like I said before the debate will never end because there are just too many plot holes to give fans a clear view of character development between the two series.Vegetaisthebest 06:25, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

I definitely agree with you. This is one of the main reasons why I prefer Dragon Ball Z and even the Dragon Ball series from GT. About the first comment, I have to say this: in GT, Goku has his undisputed place as the main hero in the series, which kind of overlooked down all the other characters... Vegeta - San Talk Contrib 14:38, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

That’s true I think that it is because the writers fused the DB and DBZ characteristics together in GT. The Lost Episodes is a perfect example of this, there are many elements of DB that try to make GT funny. However, I think that this make the series really stupid. Such as Trunks and Goku vs. Ludd, they only went SS to knock him over, but continue to fight in their normal forms. How dumb is that? Then the Baby Saga finally kicks the series into overdrive. I’m glad that they released that saga first, I would have been very angry if I spent money to by the beginning of a series that was worse than DB. Goku in the Baby/Super 17/Shadow Dragons Sagas, was of course the main hero. I wish someone like Gohan/Goten/Vegeta would have gone with him to fight the dragons, or went with him to outer space. Instead of that idiot Pan! She just got in the way so many times. I could rather stand to deal with Giru (and that’s saying a lot!) Even if Majuub went it would be like a field trip between student and teacher. They just put him in a couple of episodes fighting Baby, have him save Gohan from Rilldo, stall Baby/Syn Shenron so SS4 Goku could get power from the other 3 SSs (minus Vegeta), and fly Chi-Chi away while Goten and the others go back to fight Omega. They just overlooked his power completely! He was the strongest in the group against Super 17, but gave Vegeta the spotlight. I think that either the writers did this on purpose, or that all of their power levels were down from fighting the other villains from Hell. Remember that he gave a combo of rapid punches and kicks to Super 17’s back. Then when he finished he was out of breath! So that drop in power theory may in fact be a valid reason. His Chocolate Beam could have easily defeated any of the enemies, but of course the writers just cut him out of every battle. They choose to put him in the backseat of most major battles. The biggest punch to the gut was having him the second strongest warrior in the Super 17 Saga (behind SS4 Goku of course) lose a fight to Hercule in the World Tournament! I always thought that Gohan and Trunks should have gone to Hell instead of Goku to fight Cell and Frieza. Considering that they were the Saiyans that killed them (even though Future Trunks was the one to kill Mecha Frieza). That battle was just sad! At the end of the episode, he says to the two “I’ve have a few new tricks up my sleeve!” I was about to jump out of my seat! I thought that he would bust out either SS3 or SS4 on the two. They saw him as a SS3 against Kid Buu, but he didn’t know that. So I figured that he would use that or the new SS4. Instead what did we get? A crappy imitation fight that incorporated his DB Power Pole and Nimbus, Almighty Light Cage, and the different ways that Goku sliced them in half in Z! The Kamehameha the blasted Cell was like the Warp Kamehameha in Z, his body was left in cinders as only the bottom half of his body remained. The Destro-Disc, sliced Frieza just like in Z, he was hit by his own discs. The disc that Goku was riding on was like his Nimbus Cloud, and the spike that he cut down and used to deflect Cell’s Kamehameha was like his Power Pole. The only interesting part was when Cell absorbed Goku, but they still found a way to make a mockery out of that. Read the other post that I’m about to make about Cell and Frieza in GT. It will elaborate on this subject more to save time on this one. I’m going to stop here so my next few posts will tell about how I break down GT into the pathetic sagas that make it so bad for the other heroes.Vegetaisthebest 18:01, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

No as we see baby would win.[]

For sure baby hands down goku ssj3 power would not be enough to take baby down we see majuubs power was for sure around a ssj3s and he coudlt beat baby but did some dmg so Goku ssj3 I have to say no wont stand a chance against baby.

DBGT Did Not "Screw Everyone"[]

First off, there is a reason we are supposed to separate our different points into paragraphs - and I'm not trying to be a jerk by saying this - but one extremely long post with no separation into paragraphs is hard to follow.

Secondly, DBGT did not "screw everyone." And its inconsistencies, according to this wiki, are actually LESS than the inconsistencies listed in DBZ. For instance, when Goku fought Rilldo and others during his adventures with Pan and Trunks, he was very new to his child body and had not yet mastered control over his powers in that body. It makes sense. His knowledge had not changed, but he was in a ten-year-old body, for crissake. It takes time, practice, and use to be able to master anything new, and you gotta admit, going from age 40-something to age ten is friggin *new*.

Your point about Baby fusing with Vegeta makes sense as well, because I was wondering how Baby-Vegeta could match Goku, especially if Goku was at SSJ3. But yeah, that they were fused (and Vegeta's appearance had changed dramatically at that point) would multiply their powers by great extent. Thanks for clearing that up.

TigersEye 02/21/2013