CRNA's getting a lot more bold (2024)

GaseousClay said:

At the peds anesthesia conference today and a CRNA, MS, MBA, DNP introduced themselves as Dr. To me after I told them my first name

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Whenever one of those as_shole faces pulls that with me, I respond by asking "what medical school did you graduate from?"

GaseousClay said:

At the peds anesthesia conference today and a CRNA, MS, MBA, DNP introduced themselves as Dr. To me after I told them my first name

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You should have asked "Doctor of what?" When he/she says Nursing, then you go "Well, that doesn't count... Does it?.... "

CVRN said:

As an SRNA I must admit that's pretty ridiculous. The only CRNAs I've met in real life that said that they should be called Dr have been the academic types. All other clinical CRNAs that I've spoken with about the DNP feel that it's a bunch of useless fluff. I fall into the latter category.

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Then vote for AANA leadership who oppose it.

GaseousClay said:

At the peds anesthesia conference today and a CRNA, MS, MBA, DNP introduced themselves as Dr. To me after I told them my first name

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With all those degrees he could have gone to medical school for a lot less time and money.

I got my degree online. You to can join the ranks of Noctor of Anesthesia. This has to be a joke?

secants said:

You would think that with the alphabet soup after their name, all those years to get those could have gone into actually becoming a doctor.

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Thats a nurse thing. One of the NPs in the unit has 2 lines of that **** on her coat. I laugh when they put ACLS or CCRN on conference pamphlets.

Psai said:

That's pretty obnoxious. Why is a CRNA at a peds anesthesia conference?

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Absolutely agree it's obnoxious - but why do you think they wouldn't be at a peds anesthesia conference?

jwk said:

Absolutely agree it's obnoxious - but why do you think they wouldn't be at a peds anesthesia conference?

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I thought that CRNAs avoided the field because it is inherently more risky and less lucrative than the other fields of anesthesiology.

Critical Mass REACHED said:

I got my degree online. You to can join the ranks of Noctor of Anesthesia. This has to be a joke?

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"requires a good amount of pre requisites to even consider." lol. That doesn't even make sense. Can you really get your CRNA online? Seriously that is embarrassing if it's true.

wjs010 said:

Can you really get your CRNA online? Seriously that is embarrassing if it's true.

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Anyway, to play devil's advocate for a moment, if the person in question really has a DNP, they are a doctor of something (just as a PhD in marine biology makes one a doctor). However, using the title to imply they are a doctor of medicine is absolutely immoral, and I would assume borders on illegal.

Spinach Dip said:

Anyway, to play devil's advocate for a moment, if the person in question really has a DNP, they are a doctor of something (just as a PhD in marine biology makes one a doctor). However, using the title to imply they are a doctor of medicine is absolutely immoral, and I would assume borders on illegal.

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Yeah, no. If your degree is younger than I am, it's not worth anything.

wjs010 said:

"requires a good amount of pre requisites to even consider." lol. That doesn't even make sense. Can you really get your CRNA online? Seriously that is embarrassing if it's true.

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It's true, there are some links showing the schools, and you can click the link to apply.

Critical Mass REACHED said:

It's true, there are some links showing the schools, and you can click the link to apply.

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holy crap. And they still have the balls to encroach and "take over" the anesthesiologists? I don't understand..I'd be embarrassed if I worked next to or in passing distance from a real physician who went to med school and all I did was get my degree online...yikes. I bet most CRNA's are just trying to make the buck like the rest of people and don't intend to ruin the profession. They do it without knowing it because it's a good gig.

GaseousClay said:

At the peds anesthesia conference today and a CRNA, MS, MBA, DNP introduced themselves as Dr. To me after I told them my first name

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I can't believe you guys invite CRNAs to your physician conferences. You can blame your specialty leadership for that.

GaseousClay said:

At the peds anesthesia conference today and a CRNA, MS, MBA, DNP introduced themselves as Dr. To me after I told them my first name

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Julia Noctor, CRNA, MS, MBA, DNP, WTF, OMG, LOL, BRB

countingdays said:

Then vote for AANA leadership who oppose it.

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Funny how that never happens.

Spinach Dip said:

Anyway, to play devil's advocate for a moment, if the person in question really has a DNP, they are a doctor of something (just as a PhD in marine biology makes one a doctor). However, using the title to imply they are a doctor of medicine is absolutely immoral, and I would assume borders on illegal.

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Um, no. You and they know damn well that the use of the term "doctor" in the clinical setting to a patient means Physician. Nurses are trying to control the language, with words like "provider" or MDA (vs. a CRNA).

DermViser said:

Um, no. You and they know damn well that the use of the term "doctor" in the clinical setting to a patient means Physician. Nurses are trying to control the language, with words like "provider" or MDA (vs. a CRNA).

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I'm sorry; I don't see where you are in disagreement with my point.

wjs010 said:

"requires a good amount of pre requisites to even consider." lol. That doesn't even make sense. Can you really get your CRNA online? Seriously that is embarrassing if it's true.

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You cannot become a CRNA online. Duh!

If one is already a CRNA, it's possible to earn a DNP online since there is no clinical component involved in that.

Critical Mass REACHED said:

I got my degree online. You to can join the ranks of Noctor of Anesthesia. This has to be a joke?

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Is this for real? The grammar in this thing is pretty terrible ...besides claiming that "an anesthetist is strictly a nurse's duty"-- what?

And while I'm not sure I agree with introducing more degrees/titles to the world that come with the title "Doctor" ("of whatever"), I guess technically they can consider themselves justified in using that title with a DNP. But definitely that implies to patients in a clinical setting that one is an MD/DO.
It reminds me of our hospitals where nearly everyone wears a white coat. Doctors...Pharmacists...NPs...CRNAs...even the case managers! The case managers really get me because (correct me if I'm wrong but) they don't even have training in the sciences or medicine in the way the others do (forgetting for a moment that nursing and doc training is fundamentally different as well). Patients are constantly getting confused and saying that they talked to "the doctor" when someone with a white coat enters the room and doesn't properly identify him/herself... only the med students in the short coats stand out.
I thought the point of the coat -besides some big pockets!- was to identify one's position/title in the medicine world... with the fomite crap we carry around on those things, why even wear them if they don't mean anything anymore? Well, guess I forgot you can list your alphabet soup on there and hope the patients get confused by that as well.

AlgundiA said:

Is this for real? The grammar in this thing is pretty terrible ...besides claiming that "an anesthetist is strictly a nurse's duty"-- what?

And while I'm not sure I agree with introducing more degrees/titles to the world that come with the title "Doctor" ("of whatever"), I guess technically they can consider themselves justified in using that title with a DNP. But definitely that implies to patients in a clinical setting that one is an MD/DO.
It reminds me of our hospitals where nearly everyone wears a white coat. Doctors...Pharmacists...NPs...CRNAs...even the case managers! The case managers really get me because (correct me if I'm wrong but) they don't even have training in the sciences or medicine in the way the others do (forgetting for a moment that nursing and doc training is fundamentally different as well). Patients are constantly getting confused and saying that they talked to "the doctor" when someone with a white coat enters the room and doesn't properly identify him/herself... only the med students in the short coats stand out.
I thought the point of the coat -besides some big pockets!- was to identify one's position/title in the medicine world... with the fomite crap we carry around on those things, why even wear them if they don't mean anything anymore? Well, guess I forgot you can list your alphabet soup on there and hope the patients get confused by that as well.

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I saw a post the other day about nursing students and one of them noted that the NURSING STUDENTS wear lab coats. The thread was about male nursing students and he said (paraphrasing), "Being a male nursing student is awesome. We wear white lab coats and I've had people confuse me for a medical student or doctor multiple times. It's awesome when they call me Dr. and I get to tell them about their treatment plan."

Scary f'ing stuff. I interviewed at 13 programs this cycle and I think 2-3 hospitals had adopted those new namecards that were color coordinated to "Doctor," "Nurse," "Physician's Assistant," in huge letters. This should be MANDATORY in every hospital in this country.

We've created a monster. And it's not just in anesthesia.

http://www.khi.org/news/2014/jan/27/nurses-push-remove-oversight-doctors/

http://www.clinicaladvisor.com/state-medical-boards-trying-to-limit-who-can-be-called-doctor/article/284167/

I care that a CRNA does not introduce themselves as "doctor" to a patient. That is false advertising in a setting where the term "doctor" means physician. It's against the rules in my hospital.

Outside a hospital like at a conference or in a university setting? Doesn't bother me as much. If somebody introduces themselves as "dr. so and so" while we are shaking hands, I'll stop laughing and then introduce myself by first name since that is appropriate and then ask them where they went to medical school. After they tell me they are a DNP, I'll tell them I'm an astronaut.

Mman said:

I care that a CRNA does not introduce themselves as "doctor" to a patient. That is false advertising in a setting where the term "doctor" means physician. It's against the rules in my hospital.

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My hospital doesn't have these rules, but this is why, as a third and fourth year med student (with a PhD in engineering) I

introduced myself as Dr. PhysicsNerd42. It would just confuse the patients. If I shouldn't be introducing myself as "doctor", DNPs shouldn't either.

buccsmf1 said:

I saw a post the other day about nursing students and one of them noted that the NURSING STUDENTS wear lab coats. The thread was about male nursing students and he said (paraphrasing), "Being a male nursing student is awesome. We wear white lab coats and I've had people confuse me for a medical student or doctor multiple times. It's when they call me Dr. and I get to tell them about their treatment plan."

Scary f'ing stuff. I interviewed at 13 programs this cycle and I think 2-3 hospitals had adopted those new namecards that were color coordinated to "Doctor," "Nurse," "Physician's Assistant," in huge letters. This should be MANDATORY in every hospital in this country.

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I don't see why this is a problem in the first place. People should understand their roles and not try to trick people just for ego purposes. There was an event at my school where a bunch of nursing students were giving flu shots in the atrium of the medical school while wearing long white coats. It said school of nursing in big letters on their clothes but it still felt weird. I've already stopped wearing the short white coat if I can because it's a joke. When I'm an attending, I'm going to wear a suit.

buccsmf1 said:

Scary f'ing stuff. I interviewed at 13 programs this cycle and I think 2-3 hospitals had adopted those new namecards that were color coordinated to "Doctor," "Nurse," "Physician's Assistant," in huge letters. This should be MANDATORY in every hospital in this country.

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That's what we do.
If you look, you're not going to get confused.

WhiteDogwood said:

If were interested in minimizing patient confusion or obfuscation of one's training/background/qualifications, perhaps we can collectively move to introduce ourselves as 'Dr. X, your physician anesthesiologist," or what have you. Obviously the term 'Doctor' is and will continue to be shared, but there is little to no confusion re the term 'physician.' A culture change and increased recognition that all physicians are doctors, but that all doctors are not physicians may go a long way to resolving this without having a turf war over a long-shared title.

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Disagree. Nurses shouldn't call themselves doctor, no matter what degree inflation they grant themselves.

countingdays said:

Disagree. Nurses shouldn't call themselves doctor, no matter what degree inflation they grant themselves.

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I understand. My point doesn't necessarily regard a should or should-not argument. Rather, it presents a path that will more clearly differentiate those trained as physicians from those who may be confused as such (purposefully or not) by title. I can imagine a professional-society, patient-focused campaign centered around the question of whether one is ultimately being managed specifically by a physician or someone else.

WhiteDogwood said:

If were interested in minimizing patient confusion or obfuscation of one's training/background/qualifications, perhaps we can collectively move to introduce ourselves as 'Dr. X, your physician anesthesiologist," or what have you. Obviously the term 'Doctor' is and will continue to be shared, but there is little to no confusion re the term 'physician.' A culture change and increased recognition that all physicians are doctors, but that all doctors are not physicians may go a long way to resolving this without having a turf war over a long-shared title.

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I disagree. Stating that you're a physician anesthesiologist implies that there is some other type of anesthesiologist that is similarly qualified. Dr. X should suffice to let people know that you're a capable physician.

CRNAs should be the ones doing the differentiating because they are anesthetists, not doctors and they need supervision of an actual anesthesiologist.

When I introduce myself to a patient for the first time when I'm working with a CRNA it goes like this:

"I'm Dr. Buzz. I'm a physician and board-certified anesthesiologist. You are going to meet Ms. X who is a CRNA. CRNAs are advanced-practice nurses who receive additional training and certification in the technical aspects of anesthesia administration. We work together in what's called the anesthesia care team model. Part of my job is to review your medical history and ensure your safety during the procedure. I will also be present for all the critical parts of your operation. Ms. X will be in the room with you at all times. Any questions?"

After that I don't care what they say. I always get to them first. Rehearse this and practice it. You can say this in less than 15 seconds.

BuzzPhreed said:

When I introduce myself to a patient for the first time when I'm working with a CRNA it goes like this:

"I'm Dr. Buzz. I'm a physician and board-certified anesthesiologist. You are going to meet Ms. X who is a CRNA. CRNAs are advanced-practice nurses who receive additional training and certification in the technical aspects of anesthesia administration. We work together in what's called the anesthesia care team model. Part of my job is to review your medical history and ensure your safety during the procedure. I will also be present for all the critical parts of your operation. Ms. X will be in the room with you at all times. Any questions?"

After that I don't care what they say. I always get to them first. Rehearse this and practice it. You can say this in less than 15 seconds.

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This is a very nice brief distinction between the roles of the crna/anesthesiologist for a presumptively ignorant patient...but the fact that you HAVE to give this speech really speaks to how invasive/significant (meaning impact vs. importance) crnas have become to your specialty.

BuzzPhreed said:

When I introduce myself to a patient for the first time when I'm working with a CRNA it goes like this:

"I'm Dr. Buzz. I'm a physician and board-certified anesthesiologist. You are going to meet Ms. X who is a CRNA. CRNAs are advanced-practice nurses who receive additional training and certification in the technical aspects of anesthesia administration. We work together in what's called the anesthesia care team model. Part of my job is to review your medical history and ensure your safety during the procedure. I will also be present for all the critical parts of your operation. Ms. X will be in the room with you at all times. Any questions?"

After that I don't care what they say. I always get to them first. Rehearse this and practice it. You can say this in less than 15 seconds.

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If you work in an environment where you feel the need to do this...Keep it simple. "I am the anesthesia Doctor who will be in charge of your anesthetic. I also work with an anesthesia Nurse."

Sublimazing said:

This is a very nice brief distinction between the roles of the crna/anesthesiologist for a presumptively ignorant patient...but the fact that you HAVE to give this speech really speaks to how invasive/significant (meaning impact vs. importance) crnas have become to your specialty.

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This is reality.

All I know is that if they go in afterwards and introduce themselves as "Dr. X" that I'm not the one who looks like an a-hole.

dr doze said:

If you work in an environment where you feel the need to do this...Keep it simple. "I am the anesthesia Doctor who will be in charge of your anesthetic. I also work with an anesthesia Nurse."

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Agree. Make the distiction but keep it simple.

Spinach Dip said:

Anyway, to play devil's advocate for a moment, if the person in question really has a DNP, they are a doctor of something (just as a PhD in marine biology makes one a doctor). However, using the title to imply they are a doctor of medicine is absolutely immoral, and I would assume borders on illegal.

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Yeah....but insisting that you be called "Doctor" because you have a PhD or some other terminal educational title is douchebaggery at its peak. I never called any of my PhD advisors "Doctor", always "Professor"; and they never felt the need to be called "Doctor".

And you're absolutely right -- to the average lay person "Doctor" implies you're an MD, DO, DMD, or DVM. It's misleading at best and deceitful at worst.

TheWeeIceMan said:

Physicians should start using a color other than white for their lab coats.

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Or how about different trim (around the collar/shoulders) for different positions?

Red - Physician (MD/DO)
Blue - Nurse
Yellow - Med student
Green - Pharmacist

etc etc....

Spinach Dip said:

Or how about different trim (around the collar/shoulders) for different positions?

Red - Physician (MD/DO)
Blue - Nurse
Yellow - Med student
Green - Pharmacist

etc etc....

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I like the idea of colored berets better....or we can do what the Navy does for their carrier deck crews and make everyone wear different colored scrub shirts in the OR. Seriously though, colors would be too confusing for patients, which is really the point here - midlevels misrepresenting themselves to patients.